NPR’s Juana Summers talks with Royal Ramey, co-founder and CEO of the Forestry and Firefighting Recruitment Initiative, about former incarcerated firefighters building careers in the field way.
Host Juana Summers:
California has long relied on its prison population to fight wildfires. The state is one of at least 14 that has set up fire camps for incarcerated people to conduct firefighting training. It’s another sentencing option — and an opportunity to serve the public as wildfires become increasingly urgent. For some who attend fire camp, it’s the path to a life calling.
But becoming a firefighter after prison isn’t easy. Just ask Royal Remy. He is co-founder and CEO of the Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program. This is a California-based nonprofit dedicated to helping formerly incarcerated firefighters find jobs. But years before Remy launched his nonprofit, he was incarcerated, attended fire camp and fell in love with the profession of firefighter. I told him to take me back to that moment over ten years ago.
ROYAL RAMEY: I was incarcerated in the fire camp for about 20 months. I really had no idea what I was getting myself into. All I knew was that I wanted to be close to home and live in a dorm where you could eat good food. I really had no idea what a wildland firefighter was. But once I got there, over time, I actually embraced it and fell in love with it. It’s definitely a dangerous job, right? But as a young, active male, this kind of thing excites me – you know what? – Growing up, chasing that adrenaline rush of, you know, being the hero and actually going out there and, like we say, slaying the dragon.
Summers: I understand that you were released from prison in 2014. What does this process look like?
Rami: Oh, man. How long do you have? Because we could talk about this all day long (laughter).
Summers: Oh, man.
RAMEY: No, honestly, it took us about 11 months to figure it out. My feeling was, either I’m going to be a wildland firefighter or I’m going to, you know, couch surf at my mom’s house or something. It’s like, it’s either this or it’s nothing. It’s definitely a challenge. There’s a lot of – there’s really a lack of knowledge – like, understanding, like, okay, where do I go? like…
Summers: Yes.
RAMEY: You have the required certifications and then the application process – knowing how to present yourself and even talk about background issues, right? Like, that’s definitely a thing too.
Summers: You’ve talked a lot about the challenges of finding a job. I’m wondering, how does your program help people overcome these barriers?
RAMEY: We help with a variety of things. That’s why we provide you with the certifications you need to get an entry-level position with the Forest Service, Cal Fire, or any other wildland agency. Then we help you through the job application process as well. And then we also help with technology literacy, because I’ve noticed that a lot of people, when they get out of prison, have a little difficulty navigating the website.
Summers: Yes.
RAMEY: We focus on the removal process. So Gavin Newsom passed a law – I think it was four years ago – and what it did was basically help people who had come out of conservation camps in California – be able to have their records expunged, This is amazing because it provides an opportunity for people to not only file for dismissal, but to have a whole new life.
Summers: You first started working in the firefighting profession about 10 years ago, and I’m just curious – as you look at the field, how has it changed? Do you think it’s easier for formerly incarcerated firefighters in California to find work in the field now than it was when you first started?
Rami: Honestly, it is. I think this law helps raise the voice. But I also think some firefighters understand that people come out of camp with great skills. They know what it’s like to sleep in the dirt – you know what? – You understand the hardships of that profession, right? I think it’s a real shame – to get around this – because – the labor shortage we have in California really puts us in a position where we need all hands on deck, right? And, you know, we’re working on a plan to vet people. We try to select people who are serious about their careers and want to make a difference in their lives. They understand that firefighting is not a nine-to-five job.
Summers: No.
Rami: It’s a way of life.
SUMMER: What are some things about this career that you think might be attractive to people who have served time? I guess I’m curious – like you said, is it the adrenaline? Is it a public service? Could it be something else?
RAMEY: It’s definitely one of those things – because it all depends on the person, right? But to me, it’s like, when you’re told that you’re not this, you’re not that, that you’re a danger to society – like you’re the black sheep of the family – all these negative connotations persist, like, throughout your life. Bomb you. So when it’s flipped around and said, wow, like, you’re a hero – like, you’re actually contributing to people in the community. It’s one of the best feelings of my life when you walk into a store with your uniform on. If you’ve never had anything like this in your life, it’s powerful. This is inspiring. You feel validated.
SUMMER: I’d like to turn the conversation to climate, if I may, because we know that as global temperatures rise, wildfires are burning more acres and lasting longer, which of course means greater impacts. The need for firefighting. As agencies like the U.S. Forest Service report, there is a chronic shortage of people willing to do this. So I’m wondering – how do you balance the high demand for firefighters with the fact that a lot of people want to make a career out of it but don’t know how to do it?
Rami: We know we need bodies. We need people who can help in this crisis. We must consider all options. You know, we need to expose people to these jobs and careers. So, you know – can I – I’ll be frank.
Summers: Okay.
Rami: It’s true. I hate to talk about race, but, there are a lot of white, white men in this field.
Summers: Yes.
RAMEY: There’s a lot of separation in this job. I think, right now, if we really want to solve this problem, we need to educate people on every level about what this climate crisis is, and then we need to embrace it and integrate it. We need to get everyone to the table so they can help solve the problem.
And starting projects, leveraging nonprofits, you know, community organizations that have these conservation camps – right? – Really, like, put money into it so they can be more exposed to this, because I think once people are exposed to it, then that might spark their interest. I’m going to be honest with you. Like, when I went to jail, I didn’t know anything about it…
Summers: Yes.
RAMEY: I remember seeing “Smokey the Bear” in a commercial or two and it just kind of flew over my head because I didn’t even know what it was. Like, when I looked at these red engines flying by, you know, growing up, I never saw anyone who looked like me, so it wasn’t even an idea, right? I never thought that one day I would become such a person.
SOMMERS: That’s Royal Remy, co-founder and CEO of the Forestry and Fire Recruitment Program. Royal, thank you very much.
Rami: You know, I appreciate you, ma’am. Thank you for having me.
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